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06 podcast – We Discuss Probiotics, Prebiotics, Digestive Enzymes and Antibiotics For Dogs


Mark: Hi, everyone, this is Mark here and Rowan over there and this is podcast number 6.

Rowan: Hello, everyone and very good afternoon mark.

Mark: How are you?

Rowan: I’m pretty awesome, thank you and I’ve got to say you’re looking very dapper this beard is looking quite trim.

Mark: I’m actually going for a trim, I’ve been told off by several people now I’m looking a bit too hairy so… interesting fact I learnt today which was_ what was the reasons that the human race really succeeded to tell you?

Rowan: I’ve read something about this recently or is this a joke?

Mark: No, it’s really not no, so it’s to do with sweating.

Rowan: Interesting.

Mark: Yeah, that’s always interesting I have never heard this, so basically what they’re saying is if you take a man and put him in a jungle, he’s probably the feeblest thing there, I mean even a red squirrel can outrun Usain bolt, so the point being was how does that the man must develop such a big brain, he has to eat meat and the only way really humans could have done it is through endurance IE let’s chase an antelope as a squad and let’s run it down but let’s make it tired, so an antelope for example doesn’t sweat I mean we can cool down as I stopped running and breathe, that’s his only choice so literally we ran and the reason they discovered this, is they found in I think it was Mexico, there was a group of people who ran off to this place called the copper canyons. They’ve been there for loads of  years, thousand years whatever and they got eight-year-olds literally running ultra-marathons every day…

Rowan: Well, I’m calling bogus on this…

Mark: No…

Rowan: I’m calling bogus, you’ve read it, I believe you, I don’t think that that there were eight different types of hominids at the same time, the question why did man be animals, the question is why did Homo sapiens actually evolve from the other seven, did they have access to trainers when the others didn’t?

Mark: Yeah, but they did sweat, that’s the that’s the reason I’m telling this, I believe it…

Rowan: Well, this is a conversation to be had…

Mark: I’m sure you’ll find little Wikipedia and that to be true.

Rowan: Okay, so I’m the army yes-man, I’m here to support you but I’m calling bogus on that.

Mark: So today we’re going to chat and it’s a thing that I often get confused with and I’d love_ one I think probably it’s a quick description of each one of these as I turn about it and then let’s drill into them separately on deeper points on what they do, so prebiotics, probiotics, antibiotics and digestive enzymes.

Rowan: This is awesome, this is really cool and actually these simple tools are a little bit kind of the keys to the kingdom I think, I think when you’ve got all your ducks in a row you know like with a raw diet and you’re minimizing information and you’re not taking onboard toxins, I think being able to use this toolbox is what really transforms your health and sometimes get you out of health debt because some of you know like we talked about a hypoallergenic dying isn’t enough…

Mark: It’s not enough to repair, if you’ve got damage…

Rowan: Exactly so for instance doing all of these things maintain your health and it stops you getting into health debt but what happens if your health is already in debt and you need to bring that balance up see what I’m doing my hands there it’s like a bridge thing.

Mark: Yeah.

Rowan: It’s like a cat’s cradle bridge probiotic bridge.

Mark: We’re engineer.

Rowan: Yeah, thank goodness I’m not there be a lot of people swimming in cars going who built that sweats a lot we’re chasing antelopes, target all up for his mark okay, so this is really cool question actually antibiotics this gets me in a bit of a tizzy antibiotic basically antibacterial okay, they are designed to kill pathogenic IE disease-causing bacteria, now the really positive in that respect and a interesting fact for you mark feel free to edit this out, they were rolled out in 1942…

Mark: antibiotics.

Rowan: Sorry.

Mark: Antibiotics was.

Rowan: Yeah, antibiotics were rolled out to the general population treatment in 1942 by 1944 they were the number one go-to treatment for syphilis for the Armed Forces and World War 2 was largely responsible for actually launching antibiotics, so antibiotics are actually very positive in that…

Mark: It’s not just the northeast of England then

Rowan: I am not going into any kind of thing you doing there, you’re doing that, I can say that one from home, now okay, so antibiotics basically are some things that kill bacteria, they get loads of bad press which isn’t always fair to be the issue with antibiotics is much more that they get over prescribed, shall I finish the description of the other stuff before we dive into those.

Mark: No, I think just yeah, I’ve got it writing down, so I can go back to it if you haven’t answered it.

Rowan: Right okay, so…

Mark: I take it off my list.

Rowan: Okay, oh snap [unclear 06:25 to 06:28] oh my goodness me I’m being audited right, see antibiotics effectively a really strong tool and potentially a force for positive, the issue is firstly they’re largely indiscriminate. So the problems with the original for instance chemotherapy is that it was almost a war of attrition you’ve got bombarded with all of this radiation hopefully it’s going to kill the tumor more than it kills the good cells. I’m sorry I know that’s a little bit…

Mark: No, so basically with the view of mind that your body can replace the good cells but it won’t replace the bad cells.

Rowan: That’s the idea basically say you 80% good cells and 20% bad cells you’re just going to keep on bombarding these cells with radiation and we’ll be really brute force broad strokes here because obviously you target a particular area and this kind of thing to kill a tumor hopefully before all of your good cells die and then they can repair…

Mark: So with the antibiotic then you’re killing the good bacteria and the bad bacteria at the same time.

Rowan: Exactly and the issue with that is our gut is 80% of our immune system and our gut is largely good bacteria or should be good bacterial.

Mark: So when you say it’s 80% of our immune system is that because it’s stops things going into the body the bloodstream at that point is that what you mean by that?

Rowan: Yeah, you know I’m going to question myself on that because that’s a stat that’s repeated and I’d love to know what’s that out you know where’s the other 20% it’s like a handkerchief and a stabbing hand, it’s touted as 80% of the immune system I need to stress test that but ultimately there’s two things largely which work in our gut for three things which like working I’ve got towards our immune system, one is the you know assuming we don’t have intestinal permeability so we’ve got like a semi permeable membrane which keeps disease molecules out helping that is a substance called sick a secretory immunoglobulin (A) which attacks viruses and particles. Which is part of the gut wall and a huge part of it and this links back to the whole fecal transplant chat of last week is our gut flora or all of the positive bacteria and they work and what’s really interesting is we’ve co-evolved with these bacteria over millions of years and their goal is hey we’ve got to keep our hosts alive. Because he feeds us or she feeds us, so it’s symbiotic, we work together.

Mark: So once you’ve got that gut flora right, then or let’s say you have antibiotics, the first thing you’re going to have to do because your body can’t produce the good bacteria you have to get it into you and like blood cells is that right?

Rowan: Well, what happens is and this is_ it’s pretty cool cousin before it was a lot of and I say this but it was largely mumbo jumbo and guessing and there are a lot of people coming out with some really wild statements about which bacteria etc. I have seen some recent maybe I’m going too deep on this, when I test humans in our human practice basically we can test and see exactly which strains of bacteria they’ve got, we run a protocol on them which doesn’t use antibiotics and then we can test them again and see which strains have survived, now in theory if you do things correctly you can encourage the good bacteria and decrease the bad bacteria well, what a lot of people don’t talk about is there’s a whole tranche in the middle which a kind of neutral bacteria and it just depends in what amounts they’re present as to whether or not they serve you or harm you and this ties into a lot of people talking about ecoli in the food, I have not tested a single human in the last 3 years and we’ve run zillions of tests, who doesn’t have ecoli present.

Mark: Right, okay, I think [unclear 11:37 to 11:40] level.

Rowan: Whether it’s (A) or whether it’s (B) and exact which level everybody eats in a normal part of a healthy gut, now having a little bit of it is a good thing because that ecoli will actually protect you from other bacteria’s you know, better to have these things working for you and against you, if you don’t have a balanced variety of things of other bacteria or you have one particular nasty bacteria like H pylori which is linked to you know acid reflux in people and you know, the ones who use the protein proton pump inhibitors you know the antacids.

Mark: Okay.

Rowan: If you’ve got predominantly one of those that you’re going to have health issues but having a diversity of bacteria and positive bacteria keeps the negative ones in check.

Mark: So the prebiotics and the probiotics, the [unclear 12:40] I’m assuming you take first well, that’s what you…

Rowan: Hey, right, okay, good point so tying at the antibiotics, antibiotics kill bacteria, they can save us from a lot of perilous situations that save thousands of lives, they are getting a bit of a bad press because actually if over used they kill not just the bad bacteria but your positive bacteria as well and they leave you open to what’s called a bounce-back infection.

Mark: Okay.

Rowan: So people take antibiotics and they go I’ve never been the same, I keep getting in I had this cold and then he kept me and that’s because they don’t have the gut flora to protect them anymore, so essential to use with anti… but if you’ve had antibiotics avoid them if you can for you or your dog but obviously in serious situations you need to use something and if you don’t have access to anything else or you don’t know and a professionalist telling you to do so then basically make sure you replenish the good bacteria.

Mark: How do you do that?

Rowan: So two things probiotics, prebiotics, prebiotics are just the precursor for the good bacteria to grow on, so lot of people are just flushing millions of pounds of good bacteria down the toilet quite literally.

Mark: You mean the jobbies?

Rowan: Well, in their jobbies yes, hidden in those jobbies are billions of pounds’ worth of supplements of prebiotics why, because what happens is you take these probiotics which are the positive bacteria to replenish gut but they don’t have anything to grow on.

Mark: Right.

Rowan: So…

Mark: we have to do it at the same time with the prebiotics is the food we’re going to almost the same thing with the probiotics to make sure that it works.

Rowan: Yeah, let’s use the gut flora analogy you’ve got a beautiful garden you keep going to the garden center spending a fortune on geraniums wild cactus palms creating this amazing garden but you don’t actually put any soil in the garden or any water, you leave it outside on the concrete dies you keep it there.

Mark: So when we see this with dogs then interestingly where would you suspect that dogs would need it when they haven’t_ if we take green trade for example.

Rowan: Yeah.

Mark: It was really good to feed the good bacteria isn’t it?

Rowan: Yeah, I’m basically non-digestible resistant starches fibers are what positive bacteria love.

Mark: So the example of real resistant starches.

Rowan: Well, to be honest dogs don’t eat that much starch and shouldn’t, this is more for humans a resistant starch would be for instance plantain or potato or [unclear 15:56] with dogs it’s more the fibers, the vegetable fibers than non-digestible vegetable fibers, what’s really interesting is that all of the foods which we know are good for us. They’re undigested matter all the things we can’t digest are actually normally and if you look at evolution it’s perfect, they support the growth of good bacteria [unclear 16:25] things that we’ve not evolved away like sugars, they’ve absolutely I mean bad bacteria thrive on those absolutely, the only times I’ve run protocols on people using botanicals and things like that and that not worked is when people have been exposed to sugar because you’re trying to kill bad bacteria as the same time as you’re giving it lots of food.

Mark: And one [unclear 16:56] is that you can often tell if someone’s on a good day or on a bad day, if they be able [unclear 17:01] like if it’s there for 3 weeks afterwards and it’s like Jesus uncle Feri still there and I’m saying it’s the same with…

Rowan: Who are these people who go around checking on other people, is this some kind of clubby rain?

Mark: There again when you look at a dog when they got the toilet when you are walking down someone else has not picked up the dog dirt and you can let you smell it before you can get there and you go that it’s definitely a process don’t do.

Rowan: Their could be a whole of stuff going on with that, I was going to say I’ve not had a deep dive into that but that seems wholly inappropriate and it you know we’re not 17 well, I’m…

Mark: So my point was as the on a raw day you can definitely tell in every aspect that you know a lot of the foods being used up and is that because they don’t ultimately got good floor.

Rowan: You definitely contribute to it yeah, because what you can’t digest normally should feed the good bacteria then I mean a lot of what you excrete will actually be dead bacteria a huge portion of it not just fiber but bacteria that’s died that’s gone through its life’sspan and that’s personally one of my theories with stool size and kibble is that the dogs actually have an overgrowth of bad bacteria fed on the sugars associated with kibble and that is what’s contributing to the volume install.

Mark: On top of the fillers?

Rowan: Yeah, so you’ve got all of these fillers, these starches, these things which the dogs can’t digest as dogs basically aren’t supposed to be in that much carbohydrate but that undigested carbohydrate is then feeding a whole generation of bacteria which shouldn’t be there, so the dogs carrying around this zoo of bacteria which shouldn’t be there and I’m going right off paste here. But my other personal theory is that we will see in a couple of years that a lot of the bacteria that are being fed by processed kibble are the things which are partially responsible for autoimmune disease.

Mark: Yeah, well you said it first remember this one well?

Rowan: You heard it here.

Mark: We got to explain it somehow, we’ll have to explain this increase, so on the prebiotics, the probiotics, the digestive enzymes, digestive enzymes is an interesting one because I’ve heard you often reference it saying you know an older dog will have a limited amount of digestive enzymes. I don’t think they reproduce it again this is just me kind of hearing you say stuff in the past and people coming up on it…

Rowan: Basically saying I’m repetitive?

Mark: Yeah that’s all you talk about

Rowan: How are you today, digestive enzyme?

Mark: So with the digestive enzymes getting that in to human and getting that into a dog, it’s a really good thing?

Rowan: There is in my humble opinion virtually no occasions on which digestive enzymes will not benefit either humans or dogs.

Mark: And what do they do exactly?

Rowan: So as part of the digestive process, when you mass decay whether you swallow whichever…

Mark: master what?

Rowan: Exactly when chewing basically you release obviously saliva they’ve got digestive enzymes in same story dogs have got this very fabulous saliva enzyme activity which is really_ which has got lot of things which kills pathogens etc. starts the digestive process, it goes down the digestive tract there’s more things secreted etc. now little-known fact we and dogs have a limited amount of digestive enzymes, we don’t make any more now this is what we know at present, this might change you know like 5 years ago people thought you’ve got a limited amount of brain cells you can’t grow anymore and then there’s a lot of really cool research which come out saying; you can grow them under certain factors, anybody wants to speak to me about that, it’s alright guys during student times we have not painted ourselves into a corner, there is a way out follow me.

Mark: You can come back.

Rowan: I’ve built back from 7 I’m up to 11 with technology right, so there may be new information which comes out on that as it stands we have a limited amount and let’s just bring it up a level for a second of enzymes, the body converts those into either digestive enzymes or metabolic enzymes as required, now the digestive enzymes are used for digestion to help you actually break down your food if it helps you break down your food then basically you’re bringing it into smaller morsels, you get smaller particles it’s easier to digest. You don’t absorb the full particles if there’s leaky gut so it’s good for any food allergies, it’s good for preventing infections, bad bacteria the whole works. So basically you’re just giving yourself a bit of a helping hand, all the dogs specifically will benefit from this, dogs which have been fed on kibble will have used up a lot more enzymes.

Mark: Okay to break it down.

Rowan: As they struggle to try and break it down.

Mark: Okay to break it down

Rowan: And also changes the pH in the stomach, bad bacteria can change the pH in the stomach as they release things like urease and whichever it means that they’re not as effective at digesting what they should be digesting another personal theory why I think dogs which have been fed on kibble can sometimes experience issues transitioning to raw, there were always meant to be fed on raw but they’ve been handicapped with bad food and by giving them digestive enzymes at least for a little bit it will help dial that digestive process back in.

Mark: And we’ve been looking into finally a really good source every week for a while now.

Rowan: Yes, we have.

Mark: Surely.

Rowan: Yes, yeah.

Mark: In a bit moment but it’s been their work because we want to make sure we get the right product for the dogs, the right quality etc. [unclear 24:29].

Rowan: That’s it and it might be that we end up designing our own because the key mission has obviously been save as many dogs lives as possible but really that’s within the parameters of quality and affordability.

Mark: Yeah.

Rowan: Now there are some bonkers expensive products out there which frankly to me there might be worth the money but if it’s pricing people out of the market then it’s not saving dogs lives, so what we want is something which is affordable in a sensible way whilst being quality using exactly the same tenets that we apply to the food.

Mark: Now that would be exciting.

Rowan: Is exciting mark I am speaking to a formulator at the moment and we’re looking at some places in the U.S who can actually bring us some for the moment until we finalize what we want.

Mark: Beautiful grand, well I think we’ve covered quite a bit there?

Rowan: Yeah, we have so send me a recap antibiotics kill bacteria, probiotics actually replenish are the good bacteria, prebiotics give the probiotics the food, so that’s cool, they play a role Pro and free in your immune system digestive enzymes help the dogs digest food and protects them from further bacterial infection and helps clear up food in tolerances put food enzymes together and really you’ve got like a holy trilogy of digestion and a happy dog.

Mark: And 80% immune system that’s working correct.

Rowan: Yeah, I mean it’s the first, that’s a first I mean you know what do you need it’s like you picked up all the marks though.

Mark: That beautiful great, excellent well, I think we’ll wrap that up today and yeah, it’s been there again thank you Rowan…

Rowan: Mark always a pleasure.

Mark: And yet again as always join that Facebook group say hi and you can leave a review on iTunes that’d be brilliant, that will be wonderful.

Rowan: Yeah, let’s qualify that, leave a review but a positive one.

Mark: Yeah.

Rowan: You don’t like it just message me personally, tell me how horrible it is so I can actually improve like we’ll do something nice for you, we’ll send you some probiotic, am I openly bribing you on yes.

Mark: Of course you are, that’s how it works my baby so I’ll see you this time next week.

Rowan: I am already excited about that mark.

Mark: See then.

Rowan: Yeah, thank you.

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